No sensible person would buy a website with the name of a fellow who hates him and direct it to his own web site. Beckwiths conversion is probably the most upsetting thing that happened to White since his sister became Catholic. Discussed the spike protein, selection pressure, Faucis constant lies, etc., as the Omicron Craze sweeps the nation. The basis is your own reflection. To think that Protestants were behind the site directing traffic to CA is highly unlikely and sounds like something OJs Lawyers would have thought up. That many people cant all be wrong absent a huge conspiracy and at this point it seems more charitable to believe that White really is rather off-putting than to conclude that all his opponents are in some sort of sinister league with each other. But then, as others have pointed out, youve got Catholic apologists doing the same sort of jokes from their side. Thank you, Constantine. But all of that was a deflection of his assertion. Think of it as a healthy kind of check-and-balance system. Try it just once and youll see. Unsubstantiated personal attacks? I see now that blindly following James White is acceptable for you. Hey, I know how you can tell if youve made a *really* good response! Is it Possible for a Non-Christians Enter Heaven? Considering all that information, it is easy to understand why alpha omega tattoos are certainly one of the best kinds of tattoos for men and women. But in two thousand years of history my denomination, as a denomination, has never killed anyone. What about the people who come to here six months from now? Also, Im not entirely convinced you know what a category error is. The rest of your armchair apologists are just sitting back flinging the accusations sans any effort to back them up. Because if he repents, you should forgive him. Exactly. I didnt really get his analogy, carebear. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:22:53 PM Even I, in this post, strayed into personal insult (and I apologize to Dr. White for those), but I will leave them to illustrate my point. That is to suppress the eternal truth within to obtain a short-lived convenience without. : how to hack router admin password using kali linux short acting scenes for students garden state recycling fort myers ever after high character maker jacksmith cool . A Methodist who thinks that James White needs his mouth and especially his mind, washed out with soap. Calvin was a scholar of the early church. I would like to know why you find it more unreasonable to go to the disciple of the disciple of the one chosen by Christ himself than to take a route never spoken of by Christ or the Bible, and just confess to God by yourself. Salvation is free,but following Christ requires all of me on the tree, burried with him, working with him daily, like Paul says. That would be mundane. what can you add? I believe that makes you my sibling. Feel free to uncharitably construe my words in the worst possible light Johnathan. I expect this from him and other anti-Catholics. White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. because the Bible told me to. He must either make the sarcasm gentler So gracious that I wish we all could model ourselves after that shining example of Roman Catholic apologetics. Thus the context and content (Canon and actual writing) of the scriptural embodiment of the Word was known by God before the beginning of time, and cannot be a knowledge that is learned or was not previously owned by its Author. This does not mean that White does not know anything. Classic Romanist response to Sola Scriptura is to intentionally misrepresent the doctrine in order to defeat it. Marketing.!!!! I used to think that Whites contention with Rome was theological in nature but I am beginning to see that it is deeper than that. Keep your fallacy out of my doctrine if you dont want my logic in your Church. I dont know nor do I need to know to what extent that influences your intellectual arguments. Why would they have believed in Sola Scriptura? Hehe, found out something amusing. That would be tedious. By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Using Dilbert would have been just as funny, if not more and then, if Catholics failed to laugh, Dr. White really could accused them of not having a sense of humor. Lamech Made Such a Big Deal about it on the other thread It was St. Ignatius (50-107 A.D.) appointed Bishop of Antioch by Saint Peter, who first used the Greek word Katholicos, meaning universal, when referring to the Church founded by Christ; this he did in order to distinguish the True Church, already being preached throughout the world, from heretical churches that had arisen. Perhaps you should all look to your own for blanket, ad hominem attacks against Roman Catholicism proper. Name Server: Whats worst is that these are the kind of folks that make Protestants look bad! Given that Jesus Himself warned that you should count the cost before becoming a Christian, you have to explain why something being dark and threatening is an argument against it. I believe that they would have believed in Sola Scriptura. There were disagreements as well over the Old Testament Canon. And now we descend into argumentum ad hominem. Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. That would be mundane. Only in this self emptying is an abundant harvest. Mt 13:15: (602) 973-4602 (Metro Phoenix) because the Bible told me to. With fearful knowledge that Jesus our Lord shall judge my poor imitation of Christ in this and all my doings, I nevertheless remain your servant and brother in Christ, Just what is it about certain combinations of notes that make us feel sad, where others make us feel happy? Odd as it may seem this is not drama. but I have this thought. I dont often myself because it usually gives off more heat than light in this format. Here are some I think youre grasping at straws here bud, what in the world was the point of that last postto illustrate that I have levied the actions of Akin irresponsible and incorrect before I even posted? When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. This was one of the hardest parts for me in my conversion. So Dennis been living under a rock for the past week? I refuse to read anything to substantiate a belief in Scripture Alone, especially since Rome says there wasnt a definitive list of authentic scriptures What did you expect, applause? here. So you should be thankful for the checks-and-balances provided by those of us outside your walls. Jesus himself existed outside of timethe Holy Trinity was not established 2000 years ago after all Jesus himself said that before Abraham I am. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM If were going to play that game though, please prove to me James White was aware that the pictures would yield said results and that he didnt post them in jest, as on that premise rests all the argument of your wolf criers and alarm monkies. Maybe not James White, who believes he can judge Jimmys outrage to be feigned. (I wouldnt presume to know whether White really thinks that or merely feigns to; I cant read minds and dont know James White.) Youll get that casuistry degree yet. the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works. Its not the priest who forgives me in the Confessional, its Jesus. from Columbia Medical staff, firefighters and police probably have their own versions of gallows humor. The traditions actually cloud the truth of the scriptures in Modern Judaism. Mary is correct that if you had posted something specific, it would be easy to copy and paste, just as Ive done with your comments. I didnt say it wasnt needed later on. Lets all shot for a thousand! He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. At Alpha Tattoos and Piercings we will be providing you the highest quality, custom Tattoos and Piercing in a relaxing, clean environment. Youre not taking the time to read through Whites points, and youre not a simpleton. You really dont know? He always claimed that eschatology wasn't his strong suit, but he still went at Ken Gentry once in a back forth online discussion about Amill vs. Postmill. If so, then please provide a specific example. For all thats worth. 26:28). The LXX provides a good translation here. Ella Incorrect, since it is logical to conclude that those who do not do a thing to assume they are either unable or unwilling. Meant to say Salvation controversy by Akin, great book, was also thinkinbg of White scripture alone book which i think is also a great book lol. and the vitriol (no one can argue the level of hatred) expressed towards BUT I do think he exxagerrated this one. White posting those pictures is clearly negative attention seeking, this one similar to a temper tantrum. The minimum requirement is mutual respect. And as I noted elsewhere, I used to love reading his materials. Catholic Answers is more thoughtful in what they do and Im more than certain that they wouldnt sink down to CareBears level and commit something as underhanded as that! Thats where protestantism is really you friend. Why would I take time out of my day to look up a debate, especially when there hasnt been the courtesy of a link provided. Just historically untenable. He takes things that are not and uses them to put to nothing the things that think themselves to be something. Grace and peace be upon each of you here and upon Jimmy Akin, James White, and Francis Beckwith. Stop twisting things. (Wonder if he knows that logic has developed since Aristotelian logic? He has been married to Kelli for more than forty years, and has two children, and five living grandchildren. It was nice not to have to run a words you cant say in 2021 in the US filter today as we were not live streaming on YouTube. William: check out Cy the Cyclopes kitten. He (Dr Beckwith) repeatedly (two out of three aint bad) left his readers/listeners with the distinct impression that he had not read Trent until recently and insulted his former Lutheran professors by indicating they had led him to expect: to read this sort of horrible document, you know, requiring people to stick pins in their eyes, you know, and flagellate themselves, you know, Now, I realize somethimes the internet is different, in the sense people come across as arrogant. This is one of them. Adam using James Whites own words but disguised as a Islamic fundamentalist. A quote for the ages. I have family that have been involved in authoritarian religious groups (no not Catholic), where critiquing the magisterium was forbidden and punishable. That he had been taught that the decrees of Trent required people to stick pins in their eyes and flagellate themselves? But he didnt. The Law of Have-Your-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too will cover any eventuality. Given that this wasnt what I said, I dont care about your opinion of it. Did you even read my comment: Possibly you are a Latter- day Saint who believes the priesthood was restored by Joseph Smith in 1829 and that you have been ordained as an Aaronic priest. Which speaks volumes about the posters character. I found Whites rant about the crusades in his most recent blog entry interesting. I pray he will have success, but since there is no authority on the interpretation of the Koran, just what the individual imams preach, I dont know. If you believe that, go re-read this thread. I mean he basically says that the only reason the Church doesnt kill their opponents today is because it doesnt have a strong political stronghold, implying that the church would murder if it did. Maybe instead of us responding with anger, we should all email him and say I dont agree with your interpretations, and I take offense to your pictures, but i just wanted to say, as a Catholic, May the peace of Christ be with you always I dont think the same can be said for Robert Sungenis but I am not completely conscious of the situation so its difficult to comment intelligently. Proverbs 14:34. I have tried to state what I hope may be a consensus analysis of humor scholars: Jimmy is more right in his analysis of the humor of these pictures than Dr. White is. What is the man afraid of? I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. Sometimes, when an issue is so big, its hopeless to carve it up into little soundbytes or hastily posted zingers. The Book of Samuel the Seer[5] 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned., Of course, he knew it would work out well for him in any case. The accusation that the Church bases her Theology on a secret is nuts. With: Way to major in minors there, sport. If folks do want to post comments on CAF then please read the forum rules and then go to the thread discussing Dr White on the Apologetics forum. I spoke on the topic of the eternal law of progression in Mormonism in Anchorage this morning. Thats important. Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. The Teaching of Clement Which ones? Sandy, choose a side. CareBear, ;^). Hehe, found out something amusing. Bill, dont you know that theyre here to yell for us to interact with the (their) issues, not to actually respond when we do so? The second that both sides have fielded very weak and odd arguments. Um. The Vision of Isaiah Thats something I never denied, but, in fact, thats the reason I posted. Market? Thats nice, but you said he was merely assuming on the basis of one post. Ooooo-kayyyy. and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in Again, my bad for not crying wolf when a dog barks. No, I was saving them seats. And the Crusades! 1. Well, lets seeby awarding him a casuistry degree, you are accusing him of specious reasoning. Through the church, couldnt tell you the location and Id be interested to see your answer, and to the church yet again. Mea culpa for my role in this. No, I dont think I would use the exact same approach, and I have no illusion that he or any other human being is perfect. For one, it can appear as a negative point against these folks; secondly, it places too much importance on the likes of James White. Am I close enough to him to be sure hes not just pretending? Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Eric, The Psalms of Solomon You? White debates on these very subjects yet I havnt seen someone raise their hand and say I listened to him and hes full of hot air and heres why. Hence the analogy hold, although I will immediately agree with critics who will says this treatment is deficient. Since James White isnt an Islamist, Godwins Law doesnt apply. Thats ACs Law. Take a look at the appendix to the second edition of Chosen But Free by Norman Geisler. Good idea, though. Instead of a change of mind (which is Biblical), the new perversions I would simply point out that the changes to the pictures maintain the theme of attempting to bring death. Pot; meet Mr Kettle. Something to think about. keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.. His restraint and politeness in many issues has several times given me second thought about my own inclined-to-be-too-sharp reactions. When considering Akins call for charity, it is quite peculiar to observe his notable lack thereof. He posted the same pictures you did Jimmy. Matthew, Theres too much going on in my life tonight to focus. as being authors of particular books? James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. The 1914 Chronology of Jehovahs Witnesses, Does God Forgive the Unrepentant? OLE JIMBO WHITE APOLOGIZE?? 28:18-20); by Baptism one is made a member of the Church: Keep up the good work of proving those you hate completely right. Quick question, can Rome tell ou who wrote Hebrews without questions? I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? In that respect, I think White is right to say Do these folks really think that lying about me, slamming what I have written without showing the first bit of knowledge of it is supposed to attract me to this religion? Everybody here knows hes lashing out irrationally, and right or wrong, theres no reason to be an occasion of sin by provocation. Oh, by the way, how convenient that you have the benefit of hindsight, since the Canon of the New Testament that Protestants have was due to the Romanists! Its hilarious that you feel that facts from the debate is irrelevant when, actually, it is the very heart of the matter! What gives? Given that you are willing to offer an opinion on the call when you dont recall it by your own admission, it seems that you also have a habit of offering opinions without checking the facts. Spent over an hour today digging deep into church history in light of the vital importance of sola scriptura. The Lord knows those that are his. Oh, and I see White has followed the template over at his blog: (1) stir up trouble with a bonehead statement; (2) act the victim when called on it; (3) change the subject by proffering some hobbyhorse topic/argument; (4) shake his head sadly while professing his allegiance to the Gospel [sic] and noting his opponents assumed allergy to the same; and (5) claim victory, after noting throughout, sotto voce, his obvious merits. What answers can be given except the councils, the fourth century, the documents from it, and the canon that we and you accept? Roman Catholic fanbois Pray that one day they accidently drop the filter. My posts have said it. 1. White characterizes them as representative of all Catholics while failing to live up to the same standards of decency for what are undoubtedly his own actions. Im not sure what you think participation in the Hypostatic union gets you except the opportunity to use big impressive sounding theological terms. CareBear: I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? But the first task in loving someone is to understand them. Thank you so much for your answer! No, noyoure much too modest! Minor arguments would have been resolved by the awesome power of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the true Canon, and history would witness to the fact that most Christians just spontaneously/miraculously agreed on the texts of the scriptures themselves. We recently had an international conference on humor where we had a session that analyzed these types of failed jokes. I wonder if anyone will do so this time. Fuller Theological Seminary, and a Th.M., a Th.D. I wasnt aware Wikipedia was an authoritative source in any arena, including theological debate. How can you make the claim that you havnt seen anything substaintiating Sola Scriptura when you WONT read anything substaintiating it? Ray, theres tension between the folks here and Mr. White because he accused a good man of lying on very slim grounds, then equated those who object to a murderous mob. We are now praying for your conversion to the fullness of the faith. Certainly you can make whatever analogy you want, but comparing Catholics to jihadists is not accurate. Bring whatever has bitten you and your family to the Lord and He will provide answers to your questions about authority. A more accurate statement is the actions of everyone here make you ashamed to be a Christian. Sigh. P.O. Use the right background for the right humor. The pics were to appeal to the anticatholic. He will not win any to his way of thinking by using these pictures. Someone even went so far as to register his name jamesrwhite.org and then point the site to Catholic Answers. Goodness, this is still going on? Perhaps we should go above and beyond on showing him the love Christ demands Everybody knows Im rightright? or accept the harsh criticism. Tell me about it, StubbleSpark. You cant seriously expect any thinking non-Catholic to just accept by fiat that the medieval Roman empire just .. didnt happen, can you? Somehow, I see visions of Wyle Coyote and a steamroller. I will claim that he has done the deadliest thing for a humorist: failed to make his audience laugh. The simple fact is: Jimmy is willing to be cross-examined in public on his own blog without even being able to effectively monitor the results. Ill fix your quote for you. Thus far Ive given you a run for your money so far as these pictures have been concerned, so youd probably get on that instead of just ignoring the facts and presuming to be angry. Perhaps SOMETHING will be achieved that way. The communication barrier betwixt us is real and severe. Heres the thing: It has never mattered if it was a joke or not. It was a specific instance of a humor piece by Dr. White that was at issue, here. You insist that it neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God used the councils to establish the canon of the Church. I fully deny that we would wish to chop off his head. Or else, call upon the powers of RAINBOW BRIGHT or HELLO KITTY or whatever effeminate character you wish to be saved by! Not. You will also notice a few dotted lines connecting the letters alpha and omega. But. Its because they are the ones chosen by the ones chosen by the ones chosen (etc) by Christ. I began co-authoring We had a number of audio difficulties at the start but eventually we were able to limp through. thus doesnt need to have the slightest relation to the site it forwards to. As far as Dr Beckwiths odd (unstated) humor, I can grant him that, but he took such great offense when people who dont know him took his words at face value and immediately violated his own admonition to charity by ascribing to Dr White the worst possible motives and attacking his character. Hopefully his understanding of history will fair better. Your comments here are dead-on and what I was trying to express rather poorly and without much success Im afraid. That said, I wouldnt get all worked up over this. Were all tired of it. It means he knew of the site, and knew of White. There are many possible reasons that a Catholic somewhere might do something like that, for example, out of spite for White. Whereas true religion is solely a work of Gods Spirit, to make an eternal people for Himself. See Verduin, Stepchildren of the Reformation. You cant expect them to act like automatons because they do have a mind of their own. Esther of the Bible, which redefines the word repent in Mark 1:15 to require Now, as I believe, Ive addressed Mr. Whites quotations. AV, No one should reward this playground-level discourse. It is not like saying we deserve it takes away any of the sting or the feeling of outrage. CareBear: Too many people throwing around the word gnostic here. The Final Act was just amazing! I accept that the photos and captions were jokes. Not a problem. But I would ask you to consider, carefully, what you say. Dr. James White & Keith Giles, First Lutheran Church, 1311 Holman St., Houston, Texas 77004, The Death of Joseph Ratzinger, the Eternal Covenant in the London Baptist Confession, New Year Laws in California Show Deep Commitment to the Culture of Death, What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran, The Textus Receptus as the Word of God is Equal to the New Testament Autographs. St. Paul himself refers to the Church as built upon the foundation of the Apostles (Eph. conclude, judge) something is X, youve determined its X. Its a simple restatement of the obvious, not some gnostic private secret. The existance of such people, whose sin or irrational behavior is generally just the far end of a spectrum we are all on, does not prove or disprove anything. And, every Christian, by definition of them being a Christian, would admit to being a liar. one) have in fact already made the determination. 1:11). CareBear: If you look through Jimmys comboxes, youll see not infrequent apologies and admissions of error or wrongdoing from Jimmys readers (yours truly included). I think those pictures and especially the insinuations about prof. Beckwith are rather offensive, yet we should not waste our time with enganging in vain discussions. Care to back up the claim that the early Fathers actually support modern Roman doctrine? Thus, perhaps you see now at least a potential source of frustration for Catholics. This thread should not attempt to pass judgment on Dr. Whites character (as some seem to have done), only his attempt at humor, but likewise, he should not seem to be passing However, ask yourself this: What would your reaction be if one of us said Just read Jimmy Akins book, it has all the answers you need.? (In other words, they still disagree with Whites comments/actions, but they recognize their own faults in how they reacted.) CB, It is called Truth. the King James Bible, but they're ok with the new Satanic Bible PERversions!!! The intention of the Christian who admonishes is to bring life to the admonished by correcting a sin and bringing him back to Christ. It was meant to incite people, and it did. 2 Corinthians 11:3 A simple example, many Christians interpret Gods wrath on Sodom and Gemmorah, as a judgement on homosexuality and general sexual immorality. alleges that critics of Lordship Salvation don't believe repentance is necessary for salvation. Im not going to repeat the argument just for you to ignore it again and waste time. This Teaching ultimately led me into the Roman Catholic Church 25 years later. The Predestination Debate-Christianity & Islam. Mary, What about that description of Christians all having great love for one another?! Considering that seven months ago, Beckwith deserved his respect, the quotes seem, well, inappropriate and uncharitable. How could he lead so many astray? Esau, I am not a protestant. I am not a Catholic. You may be a fan of White who doesnt frequent is web site, or hasnt seen the relevant statement or just didnt absorb it, for that matter. As you know, all of us Catholics believe in Caritas in all things ). Appeals to emotion dont suit you well. Even defended Churchmouses comments which extended to the following Here are some statements that youve made today: Because God is sufficient, we should slap our hands over our eyes about how He provided, and what that indicates. No, you did that. Beautiful Savior September 2021 Looking for james white alpha omega tattoo? Thats a weak objection. My identity is bound up with Christ and the people of Christ, whoever they are, wherever they may be found, not in some dead hierarchy. Whites pictures is not mean-spirited at all. Let him who boasts boast in the Lord. For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends. No, because Romanists go straight to Hell where they belong, didnt you already know that??? Not exactly the Ivy League. Tobit Ray found out about the albino monk assassins weve sent out to stone James White! Russ, absolutely. 3. 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