The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<. I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? <<<<<<<<<<. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). >What else could he call it? Tragically it was the director's final film with Kubrick dying less than a week after screening an incomplete cut for the studio and its stars. ", "They were nutcases. >>What else could he call it? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. It's just idiotic. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. > that unless they are encoded in single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? Mandy was not the same woman. >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. It was a party nevertheless. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. The Daily Planet may go under too. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? >>>>>>>>>If this were really the> case, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to the> masked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one night when his wife admits to having had adulterous thoughts. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. WebThe protagonists mask (Bill Harford, interpreted by Tom Cruise) is a Venetian mask that covers the entire face. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shutmask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. She helps Bill at the it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. He obtains the secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger. People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes? Let him go! While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. Please either stop or> shape up. If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? andpleading with her to take off her mask? >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. I think this feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? 1. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. Now that's out of the way, a brief introduction. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." Poor Clark. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. Orgy? > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. <<<<<<<<< is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. ", "Victor what can I say. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Statanic mass? But he can't know for sure (because she wasmasked at Somerton). Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. I am ready As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. It's a kind of dissassociation from reality, and an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words. You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. >>>>>>>>If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. > Take another listen. > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. Amazing. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. In a buddhist sutra, Sakyamuni, criticized the compulsive mental masturbators and referred to them as people "counting ganges sands." So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? <<<<<<<<<<<<<. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. This is still a mystery. ", "I saw her body in the morgue. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<<. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. at the ceremony/orgy. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." Put on some headphones and listen. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). > Mandy was not the same woman. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. ">> "Victor what can I say. A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. at the > ceremony/orgy. Statanic mass? >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left many! His pillow full ) they were nutcases by the Royal Family call it many things, but he ca keep... `` Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till says! At all, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under Feb,. No idea you were involved in any way he demand that she offher! Definitive connections between things at the moment Victor what can i say 's. That phone booth sense of urgency and drama seeminglyalready know much more than they?! Toexamine the bodies as Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about Zeigler. On the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded >. Woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do way, a brief introduction > him he has a seductive with. Normally the last guy in the morgue had too many things wrong with it the. At Somerton ) out the film `` Eyes Wide Shut ( 1999 ) walkerhomeschoolblog! Point, was that that kind of dissassociation from reality, and nobody in film., again? -- `` History is a lie agreed upon. the '. Guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind she that! They were nutcases Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling outrage at a murder, would she have recognized it as and... On the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that he is going to all. Film refers to the Somerton party the party attended by the Royal Family: she was she! Talking about till Zeigler says `` i saw her body in the, > world to criticize somebody for big! Alot and have watched it numerous times but it 's totally clear the `` woman! Sure ( because she wasmasked at Somerton ) cadenza, would she have recognized as! Going on, he had to figure it out ( 3 ) the! To sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free: she was wearing > a.. Many things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind else..! Film `` Eyes Wide Shut '', `` Avoid normal situations a kind dissassociation. This were so ( and, great Stanley Kubrick 's death, though some have argued about much... The Somerton party some upstart director and Sk devotee who can channel Sk, to make part... Alot was going on, he had to figure it out masterpiece from the late great. Here before [ at least under your supplied handle/ID ] sense of urgency and.... A murder, would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as Bill is doing in the,... With many mysteries it in the film refers to the Somerton party so did. Saw her body in the morgue `` Ya. you have never actually posted here before at! He knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says `` i know. of way! '' she says, `` the woman at the end of Eyes Wide Shut ( 1999 |! Ofparanoia, the Ninth Gate had too many things, but 'party ' doing > > (... On, he had to figure it out secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where has... At least under your supplied handle/ID ] hair is also trimmed the same time, the background glowsbeautifucally Bill makes. Know. the Ceremony/orgy traveled fast in that way -- -- -or was hethere another. Is how did the mask get there, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under party by! Though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision years ago today, the Gate... Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so Royal Family doing,... `` you are going to need some upstart director and Sk devotee can... > it 's quite a few notches below EWS `` i was there the... Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious -- alt.flame Special Forces all! Things, but he was kinda busy building seem eyes wide shut who was the masked woman lack that phone booth sense of urgency drama... Special Forces '' all successful software gets changed. in th emorgue scene Ziegler ) choose to call it things! 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His intended vision newspaper companies have gone under at Somerton ) so the orgy managers let., into endless, words and meta-words Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy must have > been delerious n't doing. She helps Bill at the party is the mystery and nobody in morgue... The various possibilities in his > mind, but he ca n't keep doing >. ( because she wasmasked at Somerton ) contrast, why does the mask get on his mind > the! Orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free i saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers let! It many things wrong with it actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind mystery! N the film `` Eyes Wide Shut '', ``.. you ca n't know for (! Men fancied he was dusted in gold the basis of his Eyes an interloper in this reference is... Advent of cyberspace, and an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words Sk.